[NDB] FW: NDB Subcommittee Meeting Postponed
Sam Buckwalter
Sam.Buckwalter at sae-itc.org
Thu Jun 11 06:35:41 EDT 2020
Hello All:
Please see the Working Papers submitted by Thales on the items discussed last week.
Sam Buckwalter
Program Director
Executive Secretary AMC
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sam.buckwalter at sae-itc.org<mailto:sam.buckwalter at sae-itc.org>
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From: DEKER Guy <guy.deker at fr.thalesgroup.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 3:12 AM
To: Sam Buckwalter <Sam.Buckwalter at sae-itc.org>
Subject: RE: NDB Subcommittee Meeting Postponed
Bonjour Sam,
According to the last webex, you will find attached formal working paper according to the subjects below:
1. 4.1.24.1 Preferred Route Primary Records.
See attached WP "Remove Note 1 of preferred Route Primary Records_V1"
1 Bis. 4.1.6.1/4.1.21.1/4.1.21A.1/4.1.21B.1/4.1.21C.1 Enroute Airways & restrictions Primary Records.
See attached WP "Airway Ident 6 car proposal_V"1
1. 5.7 Route Type (RT TYPE) Table 5-6 - Airport and Heliport SID Record
Stephen Moody took the action to rewrite the note for this meeting.
1. 5.80 ILS/MLS/GLS Category (CAT)
Proposed modification of 5.80 was not agreed because SA CAT I/II is dealing with procedure, not ILS station (5.80)
However, we had no time to define another proposal, so I propose to postpone the subject discussion to next meeting.
1. Communication Records for UC/UR
See attached WP "NDB UR-UC com frequency proposal_V"1
1. SBAS provider
See attached WP "SBAS Service Provider Identifier proposal_V"1
1. 4.1.36.1 Airport Helipad Primary Records and 4.2.9.1 Heliport Helipad Primary Records
We still have the need to add Ellipsoidal Height (5.225) for such Helipads records, as proposed last week, but despite this was nearly agreed, we had no time in this difficult context to define the formal working paper. Also, we need to consider any impact derived from the Garmin proposal from Garmin, that we did'nt have time to analyze. So may be we need also to postpone this subject to the next meeting.
Best regards
Guy
De : DEKER Guy
Envoyé : jeudi 4 juin 2020 15:04
À : Sam Buckwalter
Objet : RE: NDB Subcommittee Meeting Postponed
Hello Sam,
This is I hope our last update of question list (no new question, only detailed) for discussion
1. 4.1.24.1 Preferred Route Primary Records.
* Note 1: The Standard Enroute Airway Identifier is five characters. Some users envision the need for a sixth character. This field length will permit such coding; see Section 5.8.
* Thales comment: Preferred Route Ident is 10 characters and this note address Enroute Airway (which is 5 characters long). This note is unconsistent and should be removed.
* WG Action : remove note 1 for 4.1.24.1
1 Bis) 4.1.6.1/4.1.21.1/4.1.21A.1/4.1.21B.1/4.1.21C.1 Enroute Airways & restrictions Primary Records.
* All Enroute Airways & Restriction records (4.1.6.1, 4.1.21.1, 4.1.21A.1, 4.1.21B.1, 4.1.21C.1) have a note 1 allowing for a 6th character In a Jeppesen Database,
* Thales comment: Indeed, we observed that Airway Ident with 6th character sometime exists. However, actual length (see 5.8 definition) is still 5 characters. Last Seattle meeting expressed a need for change (in XML only) but only for Terminal procedures, for airways.
* WG Action:
* Need to clarify Airway Ident length is now 6. In which case adjust length to 6 in 4.1.6.1 column 14-19, and 4.1.21.1/4.1.21A.1/4.1.21B.1/4.1.21C.1 column 7-12, and definition 5.8
* AND IF 6th character is actually used for other than for Airway ident (for instance ATS service), define another record for this information.
1. 5.7 Route Type (RT TYPE) Table 5-6 - Airport and Heliport SID Record
* Note 4: The Qualifier F indicates that the departure is an RNP AR procedure. Implied GNSS required. Qualifier F used with SID route type 0 will designate an RNP AR Engine Out SID. Qualifier F can be used in conjunction with SID route type 1, 2 or 3, provided the corresponding SID transition is AR.
* Thales comment : Today the qualifier F is used for the whole procedure. But the note suggest that when there is an AR Engine out SID (type 0), we can have also other SID transition (type 1, 2 or 3) in conjunction with the EO SID.
* WG Action: Clarify note 4 use of qualifier F for all SID Route type or only for AR EO SID
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[cid:image002.jpg at 01D63F8C.BD69B0C0]
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1. 5.80 ILS/MLS/GLS Category (CAT)
* Thales comment : In the light of two AIP charts concerning the ILS/LOC and ILS SA CAT I (Special Authorization) procedures for runway RW04L at KEWR (Newark), there is only one coded procedure "I04L" in the A424 source file, meaning the two procedures are identical from an A424 point of view. Do we confirm there is no specific A424 coding of A424 value for ILS SA CAT I approach procedure? A crew would appreciate to make the distinction in order to proceed to the specific minima for SA CAT I, so, it seems that this information is missing and should be worth be indicated in a 424 record.
* Although this subject was included in the Attachment 8 from GARMIN, this was only for XML.
* WG Action: how to manage this specific need in the A424 ASCII file? For instance in §5.80 below with 4 for ILS SA Cat I, and 5 for ILS SA Cat II?
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D63A6B.5D604430]
1. Communication Records for UC/UR
* Thales comment: Today, all airspace have associated communication frequency. And A424 has a communication frequency record only for the Enroute Communications records for the FIR/UIR ((EV) 4.1.23.1) and for the special activity area ((ES) 4.1.33.1). For some applications, communication Frequency (7 characters see 5.103) is therefore missing for controlled and restricted airspaces (like EV records for FIR/UIR). It concerns:
* UC - Controlled Airspace - 4.1.25
* UR - Restrictive Airspace - 4.1.18
* Thales proposal:
* For controlled airspace, add this 7 characters field for instance in column 45 to 51 within blank space 45 to 123 of UC Controlled Airspace Primary Extension Records (4.1.25.3).
* For Restricted Airspace, no room seems available within UR Restricted Airspace Primary Record (4.1.18.2), as there is no extension record. SO add a new record Restrictive Airspace Extension Records 4.1.18.4 ?
* Or unless we could modify the EV (Enroute Communications Record) to also address UR and UC
* WG action: add a record for communication frequency associated to controlled and restricted airspaces.
1. SBAS provider
* Thales comment: SBAS provider information is useful in order to manage LNAV/VNAV SBAS approaches especially for airports with no LP/LPV approach
* The SBAS Service Provider Identifier (SBAS ID) already exist (5.255)
[cid:image005.jpg at 01D63F8C.BD69B0C0]
[cid:image006.jpg at 01D63F8C.BD69B0C0]
* Thales proposal: Add 2 character "SBAS Service Provider Identifier"
* in column 17-18 (instead of "reserved expansion) on Airport Primary Records (PA) (4.1.7.1) and on Heliport Primary Records (HA) (4.2.1.1)
* Alternative position : column 91-92 on Airport Primary Records (PA) (4.1.7.1) and column 86-87 on Heliport Primary Records (HA) (4.2.1.1)
[cid:image007.jpg at 01D63F8C.BD69B0C0] [cid:image008.jpg at 01D63F8C.BD69B0C0]
* Alternative proposal: Add 2 character "SBAS Service Provider Identifier"
* in column 105-106 of Airport Procedure Data Continuation Record (4.1.9.5) and Heliport Procedure Data Continuation Record (4.2.3.5) (initially blank spacing on 105-118)
* WG action: add SBAS provider field in an A424 record
1. 4.1.36.1 Airport Helipad Primary Records and 4.2.9.1 Heliport Helipad Primary Records
* Thales comment: In order to define virtual FASDB for Helipad, the equivalent of Ellipsoïd Height (5.225, 6 characters) as in the Runway table (PG) is missing for Helipads (HA, PH, HH)
* Possible proposal:
* For Heliport Records (HA):
-> Column 86 to 91 Heliport Primary Records (4.2.1.1)( 86 to 91 currently reserved for expansion)
* For Airport Helipad Record (PH):
-> column 105 to 110 of Airport Helipad Primary Records (4.1.36.1) (105 to 123 are reserved for expansion)
* For Heliport Helipad Record (HH):
-> column 105 to 110 of Heliport Helipad Primary Records (4.2.9.1) (105 to 123 which are reserved for expansion)
* WG action: add Ellipsoidal Height (5.225) for such Helipads records
Best Regards
Guy
[@@ THALES GROUP @@]
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